Related to this, I highly recommend William Ury''s excellent book "The Power of a Positive No." FWIW, his other books are great too.

Wait, you worked with client X too? :) Great post... sometimes it just isn''t a good fit and despite the need to make payroll sometimes "no" is a much more effective and lucrative business decision than "yes."

Michael Bierut of Pentagram gave an amazing talk on this topic: http://bit.ly/cBQ934 Amazing not because it wasn''t anything all that new or common sense, but because of how well it was articulated and how all the pieces added up.

Cheers,
-Nick

What about saying "no" when you''re not in a freelance position? When you work for a company, either large mega-corp or small startup you have to be a lot more delicate in saying "no". In fact, you actually have to figure out a way for the client (internal) to say "no". And "no", may become a compromise.

I have just recently learned to draw the line *precisely* anywhere it''s not comfortable for me. Life''s too short.

I''m pro-bono webmaster for a nonprofit group. For some time I was demoted to copier and paster of content, even. It became no fun. I drew the line.

For a paying client, I found out another code-writer (relative of the client) had diddled my code. Not much, but some. I''m picky. I drew the line. Loss of income, but... I drew the line.

If I think it''s gonna impair my work, then it''s surely a matter of efficiency. It may effect work for other clients as well: mental stamina, concentration, and like that.

A good webmaster can sense oncoming discomfort. Just say no.

I''d second Sean''s comment above. When working as an employee those decisions can be beyond your control, and usually by the time you''re involved it''s too late or too much has already been invested to back out now, and all you can do is damage control.

All of which should highlight how much more critical a considered decision to take work on or say ''No'' should be for a business. Aside from the monetary difficulties, there''s the potential effect on company morale and culture as employees wind up in the firing line of a difficult client, difficult or tedious work, or unrealistic expectations either by the business or the external client in terms of budgets and times.

Either way though, whether you''re a designer with internal (as an employee) or external clients (freelance), you''re always going to need to manage those client''s expectations.

Tim, I appreciate the story, buy the UPDATE that she took the work ruins the entire story. The problem isn''t that clients ask for the impossible, it''s that vendors tell them it is possible.

I read Seth Godin''s book "Dip":http://www.amazon.com/Dip-Little-Book-Teaches-Stick/dp/1591841666. a couple of nights ago. It''s a little book about "quitting". It should be required reading pre-graduation reading for everyone. I''ve always thought that "Winners never quit and quitters never win" was a load of crap; some of the best decisions I''ve made in my career involved walking away from something. As Michael Bierut said in the presentation Nick posted, "Bad clients lead to more bad clients and bad work." I''ll raise my glass—cheers to saying no!

There''s nothing quite like the thrill and terror of resigning a PITA client. My criteria: do great work, have fun, make money -- two out of three must exist.

just read clients from hell :-)
http://clientsfromhell.tumblr.com/

enough arguments to say no to a client

I said enough at 3:00 AM in the morning when a client wanted to make additional adjustments for a site. And keeping in mind that my team worked several consecutive weekends - I have to say that it was a big failure.

I really hope to meet fewer clients like that.

Honestly, what struck me more about the above post wasn''t the designer turning turning down the gig, but the client still willing to work with him/her after being told they''d have to wait until the end of the NEXT MONTH to start. Especially in this competitive environment, most clients would have said, "Thanks, but No Thanks," to the designer and found someone else.

If I took that approach to new business development, I would have run out of business years ago. I''m guessing the person in this situation is an independent contractor who only has 24 hours in a day, two hands, and one mouse. In the case of studios, however, assuming it''s a YES project, you 1) accept the gig and 2) work out how to make it happen (re-assign, staff up, etc).

hahaha, talk about anxiety while reading/listening to this scenario. Cheers to saying no, Indeed! Clients need to learn to appreciate all that work anyways...

I am pretty well booked out as far as my personal workload, & have begun networking out/subcontracting new clients. I''ve found that to be a great way to maintain relationships with & income from clients that I might not be able/willing to do the creative execution for otherwise.

There''s a great opportunity in saying "No, but..."

Couldn''t agree more. Saying no to work is terrifying at first, but it gets easier the more you do it. And after all, it''s the ''no'' projects that you tend to complain about for months afterwards. Why take them on in the first place?

Thanks for all the great comments above. It really can be hard to say "no," especially in a tight market, and with a lot of talented competition competing for clients. But I stand by the idea that the agency/client relationship must be a strong one if the best-quality work is to be produced.

Of course, the other approach is to make all of (your) specific requirements for a project to be known upfront at the start. Then the possible client (x) who you would have said ''no'' to, actually realises they would be going nowhere by asking for the wrong thing. This reduces the number of times you need to say ''no'' at all. Well, hopefully!

No one likes having to say ''no'', but I agree: it should be said if needed. Trouble is: saying ''no'' too many times = no business at all, so it''s definitely a fine-balance.

I like Meredith Gould''s comment (above): ''do great work, have fun, make money'' (or at least 2 out of 3)...if that''s not going to happen, then don''t take on that work.

Saying "no" is just plain smart, especially when it comes to web development. Some companies just aren''t hip enough to really understand how web development (or any software-related project) really works.

Like you said, "Because you *know* this would change 4 times.”

Small companies are used to changing direction mid-stream, so if you get the feel that a client or potential client doesn''t really know what they are doing, be prepared for the worst.

One alternative to saying "no" is to clearly tell your client exactly what it is they want you to do. Tell them that to do everything will cost them X dollars, where X is a really, really high number. Tell them that it would be less expensive if the project were more focused and try to be as honest as possible about your concerns. I feel that one big problem with contractors is that they aren''t good at being up front and honest about concerns or issues.

Love the article, this is my first time on the website and I just want to say that I love it. Great job! keep it up

Wow! I thought that only russian webdesigners have such problems! So I was loughing and translating this post to my husbund.
The same thing happened to me not so far ago but more bloody. I''ve started to work with miss X, done a lot of work and was pre-paid for it. But when she started to make me do undiscussed work, I tried to say "no". I wanted to pay back a part of money and give her all .flas, .psds and so on. In turn I''ve been receiving tons of letters, saying I am a scum...